Fibro Crash

[Stiffsister]

Hello all! Suffering with Fibromyalgia since 2008 officially. I have a lot of great days, have learned to accept the good and bad, but wonder if anyone else feels depressed as a side effect of a crash? Like, just, so heavy that doing anything is too hard? Because it really is, too hard? Though, if you do it, you're still ok, it's tough. I'm learning how to cope mentally with a crash. Please let me know how you feel when you're in a duller state of life.

Heavy, slow, sad?, Unmotivated, unclear, exhausted

 

[sunkacola]

Hello all! Suffering with Fibromyalgia since 2008 officially. I have a lot of great days, have learned to accept the good and bad, but wonder if anyone else feels depressed as a side effect of a crash? Like, just, so heavy that doing anything is too hard? Because it really is, too hard? Though, if you do it, you're still ok, it's tough. I'm learning how to cope mentally with a crash. Please let me know how you feel when you're in a duller state of life.

Heavy, slow, sad?, Unmotivated, unclear, exhausted

Greetings Stiffsister, and welcome to the forum.

I know that many, many of us have felt depressed at some point on this journey. Most people get down when they first realize that this is unlikely to go away, until they come to a place of true acceptance of how things are. And even after that it is entirely possible for there to be situational depression when a particular plan is thwarted, or pain is intense, or someone doesn't understand, or any one of many situations we face.

I have been prone to depression my whole life, so it has definitely been a component of FMS for me. Most of the time, because I have worked hard at it and reached a place of radical acceptance (a lovely term given to us here by Jemima, who seems not to be with us any more), I don't get depressed about the fibro. But I do find that when a flare goes over so long or my energy is at a very low level for too long it will lead me down that path once again. For me, nothing really makes that go away, but I can lessen its affect on me by going out and doing something I like to do, especially if it is outdoors. If my energy level or pain prevent doing that, then it's hard to maintain an even keel emotionally, so I just focus on getting through it.

I get what you say about everything being heavy and hard. Probably everyone here gets that.
If you would like to have a place where you can get support and answers from others, or even just rant if you need to, you have come to the right place. This is a pleasant forum where people are treated with respect. We are here to help.

 

[Forgetmenot]

I feel like I'm in tar.i can't walk up the stairs unless it's one leg at a time .I feel old fat and lazy.morning ate my best time .Afternoons suck amd evening I feel like lead.so yes I know how you feel

 

[Auriel]

Yes Hun, definatly felt that depression (to an extreme extent at times) I've always had that anyway, (since childhood) and I can crash sometimes epecially when the pain gets really bad), also welcome to our forum ️

 

[Stiffsister]

Thank you for your support!

 

[Stiffsister]

Yes!! Thank you for the reply, it's day 5 and I'm feeling worse!

 

[Auriel]

aw your welcome

 

[Auriel]

Yes!! Thank you for the reply, it's day 5 and I'm feeling worse!

No pushing yourself, stay present and eat lots of nice food (hopefully ones that won't trigger)

 

[Cbreeef66]

I think Im in a crash right now. Havent had one in a long time. Like someone said, I feel like im in tar is a good description. My remedy is what I have been doing for almost 23 years, meditation. I practice Buddhist meditation, and its a practice not a religion, ethical living and learning about your mind(and body). Is has kept me level and okay through almost every day since 2001. Through 12 or more surgeries, and all kinda stuff that would have shattered me before. Radical acceptance actually comes froma book I think by Tara Brach, a fellow Buddhist teacher. There are some great (free) apps like insight timer or just check out youtube for free guided meditations for beginners. Once you learn to control your breath and make friends with it perspectives change. I leaned to separate pain from suffering. That was monumental.

 

[Forgetmenot]

It's worth a go.i guess I meditate when I'm looking after my pets.i zone out and I'm in the moment.

 

[CathyRachelle]

Hello all! Suffering with Fibromyalgia since 2008 officially. I have a lot of great days, have learned to accept the good and bad, but wonder if anyone else feels depressed as a side effect of a crash? Like, just, so heavy that doing anything is too hard? Because it really is, too hard? Though, if you do it, you're still ok, it's tough. I'm learning how to cope mentally with a crash. Please let me know how you feel when you're in a duller state of life.

Heavy, slow, sad?, Unmotivated, unclear, exhausted

I like your term of crash, I usually refer to it as a flare. I don’t get depressed as much as unmotivated, unclear, exhausted, in pain ( even in my earlobes!) and I have difficulty with word retrieval. I always say it’s like walking in mud, but I agree it’s like moving in tar. I just try to focus on the better days that are coming.

 

[JayCS]

practice Buddhist meditation, and its a practice not a religion, ethical living and learning about your mind(and body). Is has kept me level and okay through almost every day since 2001. Through 12 or more surgeries, and all kinda stuff that would have shattered me before. Radical acceptance actually comes from a book I think by Tara Brach, a fellow Buddhist teacher.

This post is only first distinguishing the various roots of the concept of radical acceptance on a factual historical level, with the sole intention of fleshing out that it is like you Cbreef66 say an ancient philosophical one put into a new more psychological context, i.e. evidence based. Please keep any religious opinions to private messages. After that I'm pointing to where the (interrelated) modern forms come from.

Thanks so much for this idea, it's made me look up and reflect upon the connections in theory and in my life!

First tho just to make a distinction: Buddhist meditation can be done a very Westernized way, like yoga usually is, despite its Vedic-Hindu-Buddhist-Jainist origins. But as opposed to yoga, many Western Buddhists, praps even most, practice it in a large mythological and ritual context. As I got to know 2 pretty Westernized types first, I didn't realize that at first, maybe that's where you're coming from. That changed when Western Buddhists were telling me about having to complete a set of 1000 bows or a "venerable" teacher who claimed they'd meditated themselves a hole in their skull and that Buddhas can walk thru walls.... So I think it's safe to say in your case that your meditation is a form that may be stripped from the or most Buddhist religious roots.

Now what I hadn't been realizing when "radical acceptance" seemed so familiar to me was that I'd probably first come most into contact with the concept via Buddhism. As well actually though via ancient Greek Stoicism as well as partly Christianity. (I think the form of strong acceptance in Islam is more fatalistic and passive, but I'm not sure.) Interesting also that quite a few of the people connecting Buddhism and Psychology were also combining Christianity and Buddhism, often Zen, which is a school which concentrates very much on meditation and already strips it of much of the ritual and religious aspects.

Psychology already had many connections with Buddhism from the start, and one of the first to use "acceptance" as a mainstay was Carl Rogers. Even more useful for our pain management was/is Jon Kabat-Zinn's "mindfulness-based stress reduction", e.g. "Full Catastrophe Living" (1991). Marsha Linehan also developed her Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, DBT, in the 80s when she realized that normal CBT wasn't working for people with really tough problems like PTSD, personality problems etc. Steven C. Hayes also developed his Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, ACT, in the 80s. Both of these use the phrase "radical acceptance" as an integral part of it.
Tara Brach is a bit more the other way round, an example of a Buddhist teacher with psychological orientation. Her book "Radical Acceptance" came out in 2003, and she's a bit younger (* 1953) than the others mentioned born in the 40s. But she's the first and "only" one to name a book that., the others have it
These will all be related, influencing each other, and as said none invented the concept as a whole.

I'll be doing an online course in ACT Nov/Dec, as I've mentioned. So interesting for me to read again how much evidence it has, with >900 randomized studies and >300 study reviews, supported by many organizations incl. the WHO and the very high reputation of Hayes worldwide, apart from one recent controversy. So even only having 'dabbled' with it from all kinds of angles, I'm sure it's something to recommend to everyone with an illness such as ours, for the pain, if applicable anxiety and depression, and generally for the coping bit. Can't remember if I said that before...

Radical acceptance is not passive like normal acceptance, allows a new way of seeing our lives, the pain, our conditions etc., and acting from there, instead of just being a victim of the suffering.
Mindfulness is one method of practicing radical acceptance and furthers it.

We've been saying here, since @Jemima introduced the concept to us, things like "pain won't kill us". I really like your take-home-message: "Learning to separate pain from suffering".

 

[Auriel]

I think I saw Tara bach doing a ted talk once on youtube?

 

[JayCS]

I like your term of crash, I usually refer to it as a flare.

I like and use both .
Whilst a fire flare will often flare up very quickly, we'll see the fire beforehand. A fibro flare may have a bit slower build-up, but not necessarily.
A crash would come more after "running on cortisol", which is making us feel as if we're doing fine, and when that's used up or more often when we stop, all the pain, Ache & fatigue crash in as if we'd hit a wall.
In a flare the trigger is less visible, in a crash we (should ;-) ) know it's from overdoing it.
A crash is a type of flare, so it is always a flare, but a flare isn't always a crash.
We can recover from a crash by radical rest if it is from overdoing it once.
A flare can be much more complicated and long-term, as we often can't see the triggers clearly.

I wouldn't call the Ache-flares I had pre-fibro crashes, but when the full flare I'm still in started end of 2019 that felt like a crash, cos I went from working 50h/week, pushing thru the Ache, to 0 for 10 months, so sort of a crash starting an enormous flare. The begin of my MCAS has put me off going to work long term or probably altogether, but the symptoms after the jabs developed more slowly, so I don't see it as a crash, and what's left after getting all other symptoms down is a severe fatigue flare which increases the probability of "crashes" if I do more than hour of physical activity...

Do others use this distinction too?

 

[JayCS]

I think I saw Tara beach doing a ted talk once on youtube?

Ah, thanks for that pointer! Tara Brach has done those & many other videos, got her own channel with 860 video too... At least one meditation video. And I would say she doesn't hide her being a Buddhist, so not as stripped as it may seem.... Not quite my kind of voice, irritates me.

She's also done a video with Mark Hyman a quite reputable functional doc who ... "had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome".... And there we come to some caveats... if these people start saying you only have to be mindful and take the supps I do then you'll be healed... But not sensible to do the opposite to say that they're all wrong. All a part of the puzzle.