Hmm... Anyone else find this interesting.

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trayne91

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So, I had my MRI done Monday. I get a call that says nothing in the MRI has to do with any of my symptoms. I ask what it said (she's mailing me a copy so I may know more later). She said, "Solitary subtle nonspecific focus of increased FLAIR signal intensity within the right parietal white matter".

I am understanding there is one spot, subtle (not bright), nonspecific (no reason why it's there) on the MRI in the right parietal white matter. I look up Parietal Lobe and guess what I found, it has to do with the central nervous system and sending information through nerve fibers regarding pain, touch, temperature, navigation. Per wikipedia, "The parietal lobe integrates sensory information among various modalities, including spatial sense and navigation, the main sensory receptive area for the sense of touch in the somatosensory cortex which is just posterior to the central sulcus in the postcentral gyrus,[1] and the dorsal stream of the visual system. The major sensory inputs from the skin (touch, temperature, and pain receptors) relay through the thalamus to parietal lobe." "The parietal lobe plays important roles in integrating sensory information from various parts of the body, knowledge of numbers and their relations,[3] and in the manipulation of objects. Its function also includes processing information relating to the sense of touch."

Based on my fibro symptoms of migraines, pain, cold hands and feet, sensitive to heat and cold, been lost in my own neighborhood, and tender spots/body/skin. Anyone else think this is probably connected? I think it's hugely important.
 

minilandrover

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hhmmm strange one that..im told that fibro sufferes have warm hands not cold, certainly have in my case..also i suffered severe migraines since the age of 18-19 and can suspect a lite head traumer in a car crash that might have stared them off. But now i rarely get them. Probably in part to the high levels of pain killers in my system.
Do you suffer from IBS or get overloaded with stress if you try and sort out paperwork.. im not sure which bit of the brain controlls that or if its related to your symptoms.
Interesting and worth looking at my old scans just in case..Colin
 

trayne91

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Well, I learn every day. I have never heard of fibro patients having warm hands. You can google cold hands feet fibro and get a ton of info. Ill have to do the same for warm now. I did read we cannot regulate our body temperatures correctly. Thanks for the input. :)
 

Trellum

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Uhm, it could be connected, but bear in mind a lot fibro patients get back completely normal MRI results. This is the case for most people. But I guess we will know more once you see the doctor. Please keep us posted and best of luck!
 

terbaer

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All of this is interesting to me. I hadn't heard any connection of a person with fibro not being able to regulate their temp and having warm or cold hands. I certainly can't regulate mine and my hands and feet are always usually cold. If you asked my husband, so is my butt! Not trying to make light, my jokester side comes out every once in a while. Seriously though. Is the inability to regulate body temperature something identified as possible fibro, as well as cold hands and feet?

Trayne91, You may be on to something as it relates to your symptoms! I'll be interested in hearing what your physician says.....
 

trayne91

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Here's some info on body temperature for those interested:

"WASHINGTON, October 17, 2013— The National Biotechnology Information Center (NBIC) of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) recently released the findings of research funded by grants from Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals and Forest Laboratories that claim to have discovered a causative pathology (the science of cause and effect) for fibromyalgia.

The cause of the disease escaped researchers for years. In fact, the condition was considered by many in the field of medicine as psychosomatic (in the mind) because of the variety of symptoms that could not be clinically pinned down and patient reporting was the primary criteria.

Dr. Frank Rice writes of findings at Integrated Tissue Dynamics that has made a major discovery of the cause of fibromyalgia, making diagnosis more certain and explaining the multitude of varied symptoms and effect.

Research has identified alterations in our core body temperature is a culprit, as our blood acts as a coolant in much the same fashion water does in the radiator of a car. Our major organs and active muscles require a constant temperature of about 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit but sufferers cannot maintain a steady temperature.

If we lose too much heat (hypothermia) or gain too much heat (hyperthermia), our body’s primary thermostat, the hypothalamus, struggles to maintain balance. Our blood is the means by which our body and brain get nutrients, oxygen and takes away waste and blood flow is disrupted.
When we use our muscles, particularly the hands and feet, blood flows between the skin and muscles and must be kept in balance. We have internal thermostat controls distant from the hypothalamus called aterio-venous shunts or AV shunts that act as valves between arterioles or veins that supply the good stuff and venules which carry away waste.

Much as the body as a whole, these must be in synch for homeostasis.

The smallest part of our blood supply system is the capillaries which are tiny vessels that act as temperature regulators (among many other functions) and either conserve or release heat. Capillaries run throughout or bodies and are highly concentrated in our hands and feet. It has long been known that when malfunctioned from injury or another pathological issue, capillary function is diminished causing problems for diabetics.

Now it has been discovered when the AV shunt is defective in function and interferes with capillary function, muscle and skin tissue cannot get proper nutrition or waste drawn away. Additionally, temperature regulation becomes an issue affecting nerve fibers.

One result is a build-up of lactic acid in muscle and deeper tissue affecting the muscular system and causes pain that can seem to ‘travel’ from areas of the body one day to the next and cause fatigue, commonly reported from victims of fibromyalgia.

The sympathetic nervous system which uses the spinal cord for communication and the sensory fibers or nerve fibers that carry signals to the central nervous system, can have their communication disrupted by the results of AV shunt disorder and hypersensitized nerves send pain signals that can ‘travel’ as well.

The American Academy of Pain Medicine featured this research on its front cover accompanied by a laudatory editorial from Robert Gerwin of the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. To date, the research is confined to women since women seem to suffer from fibromyalgia in greater numbers than men.
According to this research, fibromyalgia has pathology and is not psychosomatic so those who suffer from this ‘syndrome’ can now rest assured it is not all in their minds."

"Dr. Frank Rice writes of findings at Integrated Tissue Dynamics that has made a major discovery of the cause of fibromyalgia, making diagnosis more certain and explaining the multitude of varied symptoms and effect.

Research has identified alterations in our core body temperature is a culprit, as our blood acts as a coolant in much the same fashion water does in the radiator of a car. Our major organs and active muscles require a constant temperature of about 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit but sufferers cannot maintain a steady temperature."

: Not in the mind, but a very real physical ailment | Washington Times Communities[/url]. If the forum doesn't let the link show, you can search "washington times fibromyalgia solved pathology not mind". There are a lot of research articles on the Washington Times website from the last year and most are linked in the related articles section if you feel like bouncing around and reading more. They talk about fibromyalgia patients hands being different.
 
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cyberpuppet

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Wow. Have to take that one to my doctor and see what he makes of it but I can definitely identify with the temperature control problems. I have experienced everything from being too hot when everyone else is freezing, being too cold when everyone else is boiling to having one half of my body a completely different temperature from the other. I always say to people that my thermostat is bust but I always thought it was a symptom not a cause.
 

terbaer

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Fascinating information. I clicked on the link. Thank you Trayne91! I've read several of the links within the original you posted. I'm intrigued about the REM sleep piece as well. I know I sleep like poop and so far none of the medication seems to help me get a really good night sleep for any length of time. Keep the information coming! You are a good researcher! :)
 

trayne91

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Well, thank you. I have read them all, too. There are sooo many different groups doing research right now and they all seem to have found "something" or are onto "something". And, the research is all different. I am hoping it's the beginning of making all the research connected and finding an answer. There are also some conspiracy theories about fibro and CFS you can Google or YouTube. I just want to feel normal, again. I forgot what it's like.
 

cyberpuppet

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I am convinced it will turn out to be something in the central nervous system at base. At least with the research being done we stand a chance of an answer and the end to medical personnel who insist it is a dustbin diagnosis and doesn't really exist. Whenever I meet one of those (rarely thankfully) I remind myself that in the the late 1970s a lot of GPs thought Multiple Sclerosis did not really exist but was just people making it up.
 

terbaer

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Trayne91, what's the saying, this is the new norm? Fifty is the new 30? I live by both of these since I just turned 50 last month! Hahaha...

Don't ever forget what it was like. I had some awesome times in sports and tent camping, jetski riding, hard-core quad riding, downhill skiing, etc., etc., etc. I've tried, and my husband has supported, changes to allow me the best of what I can still do. We burned our well-used tent, started borrowing, then bought a used motorhome about 6 years ago. My husband has modified my quad so IF I am having a decent day, I can do short rides when we get away to the dunes. When I'm unable to ride, I tell myself it's my relax time and just forget about what's back at home. I still watch friends play softball, but it's painful at times because I want to be out there. That said, cherish those times. I was the first girl in our town to sign up and fight to play little league (really shows my age). The first year, I was the only girl....I'm proud of that!

Keep em' coming Trayne! :)
 

dariel2323

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Well, I learn every day. I have never heard of fibro patients having warm hands. You can google cold hands feet fibro and get a ton of info. Ill have to do the same for warm now. I did read we cannot regulate our body temperatures correctly. Thanks for the input. :)

I liked the information and I also agree with your opinion "trayne91" googled and found something. I was looking to find out more of this issue, because I always think that it is good to know more each day. Thanks for sharing the information.
 

trayne91

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Well, my GP says she doesn't suspect anything else. Thinks it is all fibro and I could go back to rheumy for follow up. Funny because rheumy says don't come back and follow-up with GP. You have fibro. I guess now I play the waiting game everyone talks about... Waiting to see if and when more symptoms show up and hoping they don't.

Thanks for words of encouragement. We are all baffled. I know. I'm moving onto the mycoplasma theory. Seen drs detected it in lymphocytes of blood samples, and after several 6 week courses of antibiotics, rotating biaxin, doxycycline, zithromax, and cipro, they are no longer in blood. Apparently this is old news, too. But, does it support the theories of a virus currently being studied? Maybe... Why dont other doctors know about this? Dr. Garth Nicolson does.

Multiple mycoplasmal infections detected in blood of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome and/or fibromyalgia syndrome.
Eur J Clin Microbiol Infect Dis 1999 Dec;18(12):859-65
"The aim of this study was to investigate the presence of different mycoplasmal species in blood samples from patients with chronic fatigue syndrome and/or fibromyalgia syndrome. Previously, more than 60% of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia syndrome were found to have mycoplasmal blood infections, such as Mycoplasma fermentans infection. In this study, patients with chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia syndrome were examined for multiple mycoplasmal infections in their blood. A total of 91 patients diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia syndrome and with a positive test for any mycoplasmal infection were investigated for the presence of Mycoplasma fermentans, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Mycoplasma hominis and Mycoplasma penetrans in blood using forensic polymerase chain reaction. Among these mycoplasma-positive patients, infections were detected with Mycoplasma pneumoniae (54/91), Mycoplasma fermentans (44/91), Mycoplasma hominis (28/91) and Mycoplasma penetrans (18/91). Multiple mycoplasmal infections were found in 48 of 91 patients, with double infections being detected in 30.8% and triple infections in 22%, but only when one of the species was Mycoplasma pneumoniae or Mycoplasma fermentans. Patients infected with more than one mycoplasmal species generally had a longer history of illness, suggesting that they may have contracted additional mycoplasmal infections with time." [Abstract]

The advances in research on Fibromyalgia Syndrome (FMS) over the last 5 years has targeted specific links and correlations which might indicate a dysregulation or imbalance of the neuroendocrine system, especially the HPA axis, which may well explain many of the seemingly unrelated symptoms presented by FMS patients. Research supports that various components of the central nervous system appear to be involved, including the hypothalamic pituitary axes, pain-processing pathways, and autonomic nervous system. The advances in gene research during this same time peroid has provided new evidence in the identification and pathogenesis of specific species of mycoplasmas which might have the ability to cause a dysregulation of the neuroendocrine system.

Mycoplasmas are a specific and unique species of bacteria - the smallest free-living organism known on the planet. The primary differences between mycoplasmas and other bacteria is that bacteria have a solid cell-wall structure and they can grow in the simplest culture media. Mycoplasmas however, do not have a cell wall, and like a tiny jellyfish with a pliable membrane, can take on many different shapes which make them difficult to identify, even under a high powered electron microscope. Mycoplasmas can also be very hard to culture in the laboratory and are often missed as pathogenic causes of diseases for this reason.

Today, over 100 documented species of mycoplasmas have been recorded to cause various diseases in humans, animals, and plants. Mycoplasma pneumonia as well as at least 7 other mycoplasma species have now been linked as a direct cause or significant co-factor to many chronic diseases including, rheumatoid arthritis, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, diabetes, Crohn's Disease, ALS, nongonoccal urethritis, asthma, lupus, infertility, AIDS and certain cancers and leukemia, just to name a few.(1-6) In 1997, the National Center for Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's journal, Emerging Infectious Diseases, published the article, Mycoplasmas: Sophisticated, Reemerging, and Burdened by Their Notoriety, by Drs. Baseman and Tully who stated:


"Nonetheless, mycoplasmas by themselves can cause acute and chronic diseases at multiple sites with wide-ranging complications and have been implicated as cofactors in disease. Recently, mycoplasmas have been linked as a cofactor to AIDS pathogenesis and to malignant transformation, chromosomal aberrations, the Gulf War Syndrome, and other unexplained and complex illnesses, including chronic fatigue syndrome, Crohn's disease, and various arthritides."

Mycoplasmas, unlike viruses, can grow in tissue fluids (blood, joint, heart, chest and spinal fluids) and can grow inside any living tissue cell without killing the cells, as most normal bacteria and viruses will do. Mycoplasmas are frequently found in the oral and genito-urinary tracts of normal healthy people and are found to infect females four times more often than males, which just happens to be the same incidence rate in rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and other related disorders.(7) Mycoplasmas are parasitic in nature and can attach to specific cells without killing the cells and thus their infection process and progress can go undetected. In some people the attachment of mycoplasmas to the host cell acts like a living thorn; a persistent foreign substance, causing the host's immune defense mechanism to wage war. This allergic type of inflammation often results in heated, swollen, and painful inflamed tissues, like those found in rheumatoid diseases, fibromyalgia and many other autoimmune disorders like lupus and MS, Crohn's and others. In such cases the immune system begins attacking itself and/or seemingly healthy cells. Some species of mycoplasmas also have the unique ability to completely evade the immune system. Once they attach to a host cell in the body, their unique plasma and protein coating can then mimic the cell wall of the host cell and the immune system cannot differentiate the mycoplasma from the body's own host cell.

Mycoplasmas are parasitic in nature because they rely on the nutrients found in host cells including cholesterol, amino acids, fatty acids and even DNA. They especially thrive in cholesterol rich and arginine-rich environments. Mycoplasmas can generally be found in the mucous membrane in the respiratory tract. They need cholesterol for membrane function and growth, and there is an abundance of cholesterol in the bronchial tubes of the respiratory tract. Once attached to a host cell, they then begin competing for nutrients inside the host cells. As nutrients are depleted, then these host cells can begin to malfunction, or even change normal functioning of the cell, causing a chain reaction with other cells (especially within the immune and endocrine systems). Mycoplasmas can even cause RNA and DNA mutation of the host cells and have been linked to certain cancers for this reason. Mycoplasmas can also invade and live inside host cells which evade the immune system, especially white blood cells. Once inside a white blood cell, mycoplasmas can travel throughout the body and even cross the blood/brain barrier, and into the central nervous system and spinal fluid.


The negative impact of a mycoplasmal infection on the human immune system is undisputed. Due to it's ability to either activate or suppress the immune system, it is now being considered one of the culprits of many autoimmune diseases. Yet, scientists still argue over the "chicken or egg first" type of sequence of events. Do the mycoplasmas begin growing and replicating first and then weaken or deregulate the immune system? Or does a weakened immune system (caused by stress, poor diet or other illness) allow the mycoplasmas to take hold and begin their opportunistic growth resulting in chronic disease and to weaken and deregulate the immune system even further? The answer is probably both, and it becomes one of the most critical treatment aspects of mycoplasmal infections. In immunodeficient patients it can be very difficult to treat these mycoplasma infections with appropriate broad spectrum antibiotics which are immunosuppressive themselves.

Regardless, many physicians and rheumatologists are treating their arthritis, CFISD, fibromyalgia and other mycoplasma infections with long term antibiotic therapy. One of the more popular conventional protocols involves rotating multiple 6 week cycles of Minocycline or Doxycycline (200-300 mg/day), Ciprofloxacin (1,500 mg/day), Azithromycin (250-500 mg/day, and/or Clarithromycin (750-1,000 mg/day) among others.(1) Sometimes the side effects of these strong antibiotics can be as bad as the symptoms of the diseases they are treating since a minimum of 6 months and up to two years of antibiotic therapy may be required. Many doctors now believe that antibiotics should not be used solely or exclusively to treat mycoplasmal infections, without addressing rebuilding the immune system which is imperative for a complete recovery and eradication of infection. Others are using more natural antibiotics found in plants which can be as effective or more effective with fewer side effects or negative impact on the body. These include olive leaf extract products, urva ursi, and Neem leaf or seed extracts.

Once the mycoplasmas are being controlled by some form of effective natural or chemical antibiotic, re-nourishing and replacing the nutrients drained from the infected host cells can help speed recovery and reduce symptoms. A general multi-vitamin supplement plus extra C, D, E, CoQ-10, beta-carotene, quercetin, folic acid, bioflavoids and biotin are necessary and helpful when recovering from a mycoplasmal infection

Supplementing back the depleted amino acids has been reported to be helpful in some recovering from these infections. These include L-cysteine, L-tyrosine, L-glutamine, L-carnitine, and malic acid. Remember, however, that mycoplasmas thrive on arginine! Avoid L-arginine supplements and multi-amino acid formulas containing L-arginine, as well as foods rich in arginine to avoid feeding the mycoplasmas. The richest food sources of arginine (to avoid) are nuts and seeds, including the oils derived from seeds and nuts which should be eliminated or drastically reduced in the diet.

Vitamins A, C and E, and other antioxidants found in natural plants, have also been reported to help speed recovery and to minimize the oxidative stress caused by mycoplasmas. One of the most popular antioxidants sold today are various extracts of grape seeds. Remember however, most seeds are rich in arginine, including grape seeds, and should generally be avoided.

Other helpful supplements to replenish drained nutrients from parasitic mycoplasmas are generally indicated based upon which specific cells the mycoplasma might be feeding on and which nutrients are being depleted. Specifically with fibromyalgia patients, leading research indicates that many of the hormones and enzymes produced in the neuroendocrine system and Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis are depleted or malfunctioning which have the ability to cause many of the symptoms found in these patients.

Finally and most importantly is nutritionally supporting the immune system. There are various natural products sold today which can stimulate and support immune function. There are many natural products available in the market place today which nutritionally support immune function. One of the best from the rainforest is cat's claw. Also see Raintree's Immune Support. Another important consideration is the elimination of drugs that might suppress immunity. Dr. Garth Nicolson, one of the world renown experts on mycoplasmas states: "We have recommended that patients be taken off antidepressants and other potentially immune-suppressing drugs. Some of these drugs are used to help alleviate certain signs and symptoms, but in our opinion they can interfere with therapy, and they should be gradually reduced or eliminated."(1) This of course would be indicated for many fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue patients who are routinely prescribed antidepressants.

Testing for mycoplasmas is much harder and more complicated than testing for all other bacteria, which is one of the main reasons conventional medical practitioners mis-diagnose or miss these types infections. The most reliable testing method offered today is with a lab test called a PCR test (Polymerase Chain Reaction). Even performing a PCR lab test on a standard whole blood sample may not find the mycoplasma, simply because the mycoplasma may be residing in other fluids and tissues in the body and not the blood (i.e.; the fluid in the joints, in the spinal fluid, or in any tissue cell like heart, liver, pancreas, endocrine organs, etc.). A PCR test is generally performed by specific mycoplasma species. These laboratory tests can be expensive, but are insurance reimburseable if ordered by your primary care physician. Specific mycoplasma PCR tests are available through these companies, both of which have more information on mycoplasmas in general and testing at their websites:

The Institute for Molecular Medicine
15162 Triton Lane
Huntington Beach, CA 92649
714-903-2900
immed dot org

Immunosciences Lab, Inc.
8730 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 305
Beverly Hill, CA 90211
310-657-1077
immuno-sci-lab dot com

I be gettin me some neem leaf. You can google lots of info on this.
 

terbaer

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I told ya to keep em coming and you didn't disappoint Trayne! :) Ever see "Monsters inside me"? Now I'm curious if I have creepy crawlies in here somewhere. Ugh! The information certainly seems logical, but scary as hell....You've given me more info to research and read up on. I know I've said before, but what you're finding is fascinating. It's amazing to me that with as many people suffering from Fibro and CFS, why isn't more being done to find a cure. Maybe we'll have to come up with some attention grabber, other than dumping ice water over our heads. When all of my financial disability stuff is resolved, I may just try to find a way to generate funding for awareness and research....
 

jgoold

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Maybe that explains it. I drank alot of cranberry juice thinking that I might have an urinary infection and cranberry juice can help. I felt really good afterward. not just in the infection part of my body but everywhere. more energy and everything. I had forgotten about the cranberry juice affect until I read what you found for us. Thanks. I'm going to the store tomorrow for some more juice. if it helps, it helps.
 
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