Muscle Spasms

[DebMarPir]

I have been diagnosed (sort of) by two doctors, but my internist is still sending me to a neurologist for confirmation. I seem to be the only one I have seen that has spasms all over the body. Feet, hands, arms, inner thighs, back, neck, etc. This is actually the main source of my pain, though I have some without them. I was put on neurontin (gabapentin) which is a lifesaver to me. I know some say they experienced side effects, but not me. In fact, I started at 300mg a day, a very low dose, and since the spasms hit have ended up at 1800mg a day, but one can go over 3,000+ a day. When the pain is bad from the spasms of course I am massaging, I roll on tennis balls, like on he massager, try to break up the spasm with my hands even. It may work for a while but often "Poof!" and the spasms are back an hour or two later. When they told me they thought it was fibro, I thought they were wrong, as I didn't have all over body pain yet. But then the spasms hit 2 weeks ago. Does anyone else have these? I also lie on a heating pad or take a hot bath when desparate for more relief.

 

[JayCS]

Great that Neurontin/gabapentin is helping you so much, apparently without sfx!
I just checked tho, and saw a post on mayoclinic connect of someone who got cramps from gabapentin. The thread below it doesn't help)
Spasms seems to be used for more severe cramps (which often make you cry out) as well as more local twitches, but tougher than that. Do you mean both? And I have spasms in belly (IBS), bladder and esophagus, is yours that generalized or more outside?

Searching here (this & other threads) some do appear to have them more generalized. Do you have them everywhere at the same time or do they alternate?
I've summarized what I found (and in the process realized that the search function here is much better than elsewhere, because you immediately get helpful quotes):

@maavalos8 was told they are nerve issues, @FibroRN too (here it may be meant more like ‚twitching‘), @LeanaBeana’s rheum. says hers are from the fibro, for @markinaboat blamed Rosuvastatin, @Tattat’s friend thyroid. @LeanaBeana praps PPI (acid blocker).
@sunkacola & @LeanaBeana suggest a TENS unit, I suggest twist-stretching, one of the 10+ magnesium types (e.g. malate), osteopathy, very gentle exercises, heat (sometimes cold), arnica cream, acupressure, @sunkacola calcium/magnesium, TENS, medical cannabis, @Affinity recommends dry needling directly into the spasming muscles, @Creola17 vanilla, Theraworks spray/foam, essential oils, @Flexecif heating pad & turmeric tea. @lawh9302 dill pickle juice. @Rhyl perhaps myofascial release, @RLG stretching & exercise.

I'd think the neurologist is essential. As yours are all over, of these calcium/magnesium, cannabis might have the quickest general success, added do the things you're doing already. But if your self-treatments aren't helping too much, expert PT as mentioned will probably improve that effect. A TENS unit can be connected to a conductive garments (by medi-stim), might be worth trying for such generalized spasms.

 

[Jemima]

Hi DebMarPir,

Muscle spasms as a symptom of fibromyalgia wasn't really on my radar as it's not something I deal with. I have constant muscle soreness - feels like they are anything from overtired to severely bruised - but haven't had trouble with spasms and cramps. That must be insanely frustrating!

Have any of your doctors looked at nutrient deficiencies with you? For example, vitamin D deficiency is very common in fibromites, and it can also cause muscle spasms. A site I was just looking at recommended the following supplements for potential nutrient deficiencies that could cause spasms and cramps:

• Magnesium and malic acid (separately or together, as magnesium malate)
• Potassium-rich foods such as dates, bananas, apricots, cantaloupe, grapefruit, peas, beans, potatoes, fish, and beef liver
• Calcium (because cells need twice as much calcium to relax a muscle as they do to tighten one)
• Vitamin D (which tends to be deficient in fibromyalgia.)

If you are deficient in something important, getting a handle on that could tackle what you're experiencing at its root, rather than just tackling the symptoms.

Perhaps you've already been down this road, in which case I'm sorry! I hope you find something that helps soon

 

[DebMarPir]

Thanks Jemima for responding!
Actually, yes, I have a good internist who has been on top of that even before this came up. I'm on Vitamin D for a year or more now, and recently she doubled my Potassium as it is low and apparently I am not eating the right foods. My Magnesium is fine, and my Calcium okay but a bit low, so I have added that back in. When I went into the ER during the few days the cramps hit on a weekend and I went from 300-900 in two days, the ER doctor tested that first, too. Nothing wrong with any of them, he said. I wish it were that easy!! I am trying to work on my diet because I eat a lot of fruit and dairy but need to ait more veggies and fish. Things like cherries, blueberries, strawberries, nectarines, none seem to help which is rather unfair. I hope your muscle pain improves, I did not feel I was necessarily FB because I hurt, yes, but my pain often had an explanation. For instance, my right elbow repeatedly deals with bouts of tennis/golfer's elbow but never heals permanently. Now my left hip has bursitis (like many of this forum I discovered) and now I have it three years and they can't heal it. Things like that. But now I see many deal with spasms and feel it could be. My internist wants a neurologist to say "Yes!" because the diagnosis is so tricky, so that is next.

Take care of yourself!

 

[Creola17]

Dairy can cause alot of problems so if you can stop dairy

 

[Jemima]

Dairy can cause alot of problems so if you can stop dairy

@DebMarPir

Creola also makes a good point - have you ever tried an elimination diet? Doesn't shed light for everyone, but some people discover a food sensitivity that was causing all sorts of havoc!

I also thought to ask, have you had your injuries looked at recently? When my fibro flares, the site of an old neck injury becomes agony, but when my doc looked at it they found nothing. Equally, I thought my knees were screwed, but it turns out they're not - fibromyalgia is doing the bulk of the legwork in creating pain there. I get excruciating hip pain sometimes too. I think that sometimes, rather than an old injury not healing properly, the remnants of that damage are enough to get the misfiring fibro signals working in overdrive. Not fun at all!

I wish you every ounce of luck in finding solutions to what you're going through

 

[JayCS]

fruit and dairy but need to ait more veggies and fish. Things like cherries, blueberries, strawberries, nectarines, none seem to help which is rather unfair.

Deb: Fruit and dairy was the old "healthy", both might be a problem. To reduce simple sugars you'd need to keep off nectarines, keep cherries to sour not sweet sorts. Strawberries I'm not sure, but they are an acid problem. Berries are best, like blueberries. Better like you say veggies, preferably green some say. And most unprocessed nuts and canola or olive oil.

 

[DebMarPir]

Thanks JayCS. I know, I need to reduce fruits to reduce carbs and lose weight. This has been a struggle for years, because I can't abide the thought. Part of it is I have been so tired for years caregiving, etc. that I don't want to cook and most veggies need prep (proteins, too), so I would grab a bowl of cereal and a banana and keep going. Now I find that maybe fibro is the reason? Though my doc is still trying to confirm. I am seriously considering trying something like Daily Harvest which sends you foods made of both fruit and veggies to get me jumpstarted. I wish I felt good, I would feel more like cooking. How do you guys do it?

 

[DebMarPir]

Creoloa and Jemima, thank you for responding. Those of you who say "dairy causes problems," how do you know? I have been tested for allergies, but I guess you folks are talking about sensitivities or something? You will see what I wrote above. If I felt good I would cook. But cereal or a bagel and yogurt is soooo much easier.

Jemima, I really appreciate what you wrote about old injuries. I have tendonitis/golf elbow, right side, that is a repeat problem. It is really bugging me now. Left scapular pain yes, but then I have had that 40 years. The big one is I have neck pain, a little hump from too much computer work. It really hurts around there but am not sure it used to hurt at all. I am in the midst of a two-day flare. All I did was ride 10 miles, which used to be normal for me. There is a biking thread and those folks have been super helpful. This is apparently my new normal. I don't like new normal!

 

[DebMarPir]

JS, this program wouldn't let me finish editing my comment above, which apparently you have to do within 10 minutes. So here we are:

Thanks JayCS. I know, I need to reduce fruits to reduce carbs and lose weight. This has been a struggle for years, because I can't abide the thought. Part of it is I have been so tired for years caregiving, etc. that I don't want to cook and most veggies need prep (proteins, too), so I would grab a bowl of cereal and a banana and keep going. Now I find that maybe fibro is the reason? Though my doc is still trying to confirm. I am seriously considering trying something like Daily Harvest which sends you foods made of both fruit and veggies to get me jumpstarted. I wish I felt good, I would feel more like cooking. How do you guys do it?

I also see above, thank you again. Yes, already checked all the usual culprits like magnesium, etc. as my doctor kept a view on those long before this hit. I was on a very, very lose dose of neurontin when the spasms hit and am sure it was the only thing keeping them in check. I took the meds the first day they developed and it knocked them back for 4 hours and then they started coming back. The next day way worse, horrible, and doctor doubled the med. It got rid of them till dinner, but I knew I wouldn't last overnight. So to the ER. Then got permission to go to 900. Now I am at 1800mg a day and holding more or less though I have some spasms (and I know who you are!). But now I am on day 2 of a flare and the spasms hit till I took the neurontin, again knocking them back. This makes it sound like I wasn't on it - I was but I took it when it was due. Bam. Helped a lot. I just want to keep upping it.

Anyone tried Flexeril?

 

[Jemima]

Strawberries are not a huge sugar hit. 100g of strawberries is only around 30kcal and 5g of sugar. Without factoring in any sensitivity to fruit sugars, I would consider it unlikely that fruit is a foe in terms of weight loss. Most fruits are not too calorie dense, and very nutritious. That said, veggies give us the nutrient kick with less in the calorie department, so striking a balance is probably helpful. Don't forget to eat enough and play the long game - overdoing the dieting always backfires!

Reading what you wrote above, I'd sling out the cereal before the banana - breakfast cereals are usually loaded with clandestine added sugar! If you have a sweet tooth, a flavoured protein shake can be a nice way of tasting something sweet while swinging your macros in the right direction. I like protein shakes with a handful of berries added, or protein pancakes made with a little fruit, protein powder and an egg. I make a lot of quick salads - chop it all up and chuck it in a bowl with some vinaigrette type job! Since I've been more sedentary, I steer clear of pasta, sugar, soda, and processed foods; keep dairy, rice and wholegrain bread minimal; eat fruits and veggies in abundance; and make sure I keep my protein up so my body comp doesn't deteriorate any more than it already has! Of course, we're all a little different, so it's a case of finding the right balance for you.

The best way to check if you are sensitive to dairy is to cut it out entirely for a couple of weeks and see if you feel better - you can also observe how you feel when you reintroduce it. You could also do the same for fruit and other sugar sources as an experiment to know whether that's a trigger or not, and indeed any other food group. Not that long ago, we had a thread going on here about how to go through an elimination diet, so that might be useful to you. The first places I'd look for weight issue gremlins are processed foods, carb sources, and sodas, checking the nutrient profile on any dietary regulars. Dairy can also be surprisingly calorie dense, so cheese fiends beware!

I'm so sorry you're in a flare again. May it disappear fast! Can't advise on the Flexeril.

 

[JayCS]

How do you guys do it?

Hehe - I usually haven't got the energy to cook either, esp. if I'm working. I eat most raw: carrot, cucumbers, chicory/endive, yellow bell paprika (nightshade, but OK for me; red is better, but has too much sugar), a small apple, sweet potato, zucchini, all of this just a piece, lettuce like Jemima with canola oil & a little good vinegar and Provencal herbs. As veg, not nec. daily: beans (red, green, baked beans are OK) directly out of the glass, with tofu, all kinds of nuts & pumpkin seeds, soy yoghurt (I tolerate soy better, but some dairy is OK for me too, cow, goat & sheep yoghurts, cottage cheese etc.). Once a day a few slices of organic wholemeal spelt bread: omega 3 margarine, tofu, peanut butter (= legume, not nut), vegan spreads, a bit of fruit spread, with a little raw cane sugar, of course no sweetener!. I'm lucky: I love it, all so fresh. I used to each much more, but I'm never hungry after. In the mornings a gluten-free muesli with lots of nuts, not too many raisins etc. Drink mainly soy milk, found a sort that I love (a challenge). When I'm not sure I do what my lipidologist said: Avoid anything with >12% sugar and look for high unsaturated fats / low saturated fats. If normal cheese or anything similar then very small slices.

 

[sunkacola]

Thanks JayCS. I know, I need to reduce fruits to reduce carbs and lose weight. This has been a struggle for years, because I can't abide the thought. Part of it is I have been so tired for years caregiving, etc. that I don't want to cook and most veggies need prep (proteins, too), so I would grab a bowl of cereal and a banana and keep going. Now I find that maybe fibro is the reason? Though my doc is still trying to confirm. I am seriously considering trying something like Daily Harvest which sends you foods made of both fruit and veggies to get me jumpstarted. I wish I felt good, I would feel more like cooking. How do you guys do it?

I spend a couple of hours once a week making big batches of things that are healthy and nutrient dense and I freeze one-meal sized portions of them for myself. Home made microwave meals. It's the only way to have healthy food "on demand".

 

[DebMarPir]

Strawberries are not a huge sugar hit. 100g of strawberries is only around 30kcal and 5g of sugar. Without factoring in any sensitivity to fruit sugars, I would consider it unlikely that fruit is a foe in terms of weight loss. Most fruits are not too calorie dense, and very nutritious. That said, veggies give us the nutrient kick with less in the calorie department, so striking a balance is probably helpful. Don't forget to eat enough and play the long game - overdoing the dieting always backfires!

Reading what you wrote above, I'd sling out the cereal before the banana - breakfast cereals are usually loaded with clandestine added sugar! If you have a sweet tooth, a flavoured protein shake can be a nice way of tasting something sweet while swinging your macros in the right direction. I like protein shakes with a handful of berries added, or protein pancakes made with a little fruit, protein powder and an egg. I make a lot of quick salads - chop it all up and chuck it in a bowl with some vinaigrette type job! Since I've been more sedentary, I steer clear of pasta, sugar, soda, and processed foods; keep dairy, rice and wholegrain bread minimal; eat fruits and veggies in abundance; and make sure I keep my protein up so my body comp doesn't deteriorate any more than it already has! Of course, we're all a little different, so it's a case of finding the right balance for you.

The best way to check if you are sensitive to dairy is to cut it out entirely for a couple of weeks and see if you feel better - you can also observe how you feel when you reintroduce it. You could also do the same for fruit and other sugar sources as an experiment to know whether that's a trigger or not, and indeed any other food group. Not that long ago, we had a thread going on here about how to go through an elimination diet, so that might be useful to you. The first places I'd look for weight issue gremlins are processed foods, carb sources, and sodas, checking the nutrient profile on any dietary regulars. Dairy can also be surprisingly calorie dense, so cheese fiends beware!

I'm so sorry you're in a flare again. May it disappear fast! Can't advise on the Flexeril.

Thanks for the advice! I've added in a really high fiber cereal and some multigrain bread, only because the fiber is something I need to work at and it is supposed to help my cholesterol come down. I do a protein shake as wellduring the day, and no pasta rarely. Tons of fruit and dairy and coffee and tea. I need to cut back on carbs because when I add them up, it's always more than help me! It is tricky because not only ismy cholesterol high, my potassium is low and my doctor wants me to up that, and I see the list and a lot of that I don't eat. So I need to start. Once those too are back to maintenance, I will work on upping protein, then veggies. I can't do it all or I get overwhelmed and want to just grab stress food!

 

[Jemima]

Thanks for the advice! I've added in a really high fiber cereal and some multigrain bread, only because the fiber is something I need to work at and it is supposed to help my cholesterol come down. I do a protein shake as wellduring the day, and no pasta rarely. Tons of fruit and dairy and coffee and tea. I need to cut back on carbs because when I add them up, it's always more than help me! It is tricky because not only ismy cholesterol high, my potassium is low and my doctor wants me to up that, and I see the list and a lot of that I don't eat. So I need to start. Once those too are back to maintenance, I will work on upping protein, then veggies. I can't do it all or I get overwhelmed and want to just grab stress food!

It's great that you know yourself well enough to strategise, and one step at a time sounds like a good approach! Bananas are a great source of potassium and they work great in protein shakes, if you wanted ideas for how to convince yourself to eat them! If you like chocolate, I mix an egg with half a chopped banana, two scoops of protein powder and a teaspoon of unsweetened cocoa powder. Fry that up as a chunky pancake and it tastes a lot like chocolate cake without any guilt attached Good luck.