What about the gut biome?

[Dryice2199]

I have an idea.

I think the types of foods we eat might be killing off the more helpful bacteria leaving the bad guys to "poison" us.
This would mean that things like fibromyalgia, type 2 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, etc might just be the symptoms.

Just to be clear, I am not a hippy or vegan. Nor do I think processed foods are bad. I also know correlation does not equal causation. That being said. Here is why.

I remember watching something that said that researchers looked at the gut biome of people with type 2 diabetes and they found that a high percentage of these people had too much of one type of bacteria and not enough or none of another bacteria in their guts. Pretty much, they believe the waste from the bad bacteria could in so way be causing insulin resistance.

I can't find the study, but I did find (link deleted by moderator) I understand what this study is saying, but I don't have the background to know if what they are saying is correct or if the methodology is even sound.

I'd like to ask anyone willing to entertain my crack-pot theory to share a brief general history of your diet.

Daily as a child:
High starchy foods (mostly meat and potatoes) with a vegetable side (canned corn/peas/green beans), some sweets, and water/juice/Kool-Aid/milk

Daily as a young adult:
Same as child, but add Fast food, chips, a lot more sweets, and a lot of soda instead of water/juice/Kool-Aid/milk

Daily as adult:
mostly Fast food, chips, a lot of sweets, and a lot of soda/energy drinks

Daily now:
Same as child, but more vegetables and water/coffee(black)/zero sugar energy drink/zero sugar soda instead of juice/Kool-Aid/milk

 

[BlueBells]

Hi @Dryice2199

I've thought for years that many of the health problems are diet related.

When I was growing up, diabetes and cancer were virtually never heard of, now they are part of life.

Growing up, well, pretty much always, mum worked on the basic colours, white, yellow/red, and green plus meat. It was, on a plate, about quarter each meat, potato, , yellow, which was pumpkin and/or carrots, and green, usually peas and/or beans.

There'd be gravied mince with mashed spuds, or a roast and roast veg, but generally, "spuds, peas and carrots" with sausages, or chops or whatever was it on the average.

Breakfast, we had cereals, mostly wheat-bix, corn flakes, weeties, rice bubbles, sometimes porridge/oatmeal in the winter. Also things like spaghetti or baked beans, or eggs, of course, all with toast !

We had home made cakes, desserts, soups etc.

Basically, home made., from fresh vegies and meat. In the 1970's, frozen foods became more popular, so often the peas and beans were frozen. Canned foods, apart from spaghetti and baked beans, it was condensed and evaporated milk, or condensed soups, used either as soup or extra boost for stews. Canned fish, it wasn't really around much until the 70's. Then of course, we had tuna mornay etc, but home made.

I would have been in my teens before fish and chips came into it much, and that was a few times a month at the most, pies and pasties, a little more often.

I personally have never been a sweet tooth, so not into lollies and fizzy drinks, although my brothers were a bit moreso.

I think the additives, and the 'unnatural' foods are not really a great idea. Fake sugar is chemicals, and some of the numbers on the ingredients list...what are they?

A cake should be made from flour, milk, eggs, butter, sugar, maybe vanilla flavour or cocoa added. So what are the numbers, and what are they doing to us?

I think the types of foods we eat might be killing off the more helpful bacteria leaving the bad guys to "poison" us.
This would mean that things like fibromyalgia, type 2 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, etc might just be the symptoms.

Just to be clear, I am not a hippy or vegan. Nor do I think processed foods are bad. I also know correlation does not equal causation. That being said. Here is why.

So, yes. I'm right with you there.

 

[SBee]

For me, it's a case of knowing what works for you and what doesn't. I have IBS and a hiatus hernia, so I know full well what foods have to be eliminated completely to avoid setting off nasty symptoms, and what foods I can take in moderation.And that may be the same for other conditions? I also have a low iron count so take plenty of green veggies ( with a vit c fruit juice to aid absorption )

I was bought up with mostly home cooked meals, pretty basic but a good proportion of carbs, veg and meat\fish. Pretty normal. Homemade bread and cakes.

As and adult, I've now been vegetarian for over 35 years, no meat products or fish and won't eat anything that contains animal by- products. And hate cows milk, but not vegan as I love cheese. that's my choice,of how I eat.

I just know it's what works best for me in body (and morals). Because we are all so individual and what works for one won't for another. I am trying to cut down on the small amount of processed foods we eat as I am not sure about additional chemicals in foods. I have enough meds I need to take without adding more in food wise.

I think what we eat does have a bearing on health. We maybe need to just be in tune with our bodies and If we feel ill or just a bit meh from eating something then cut it down or out.

 

[BlueBells]

@SBee @Dryice2199

Isn't that interesting? Three different countries, we were all brought up pretty much the same food wise.

Likewise, big business is everywhere with their additives

Either way, I do think our food was healthier before all the chemicals got involved. I understand farming, I understand weedicides, etcetera, but the problems I think are more the middle men, you know, enhancing shelf life, preservatives. There are also the growth promotants, and they are probably the worst of them all. I think all these are the things going through the food chain.

Were people really allergic years ago? Apart from bee stings and hay fever, there were a few plants to steer clear of, but I don't recall any food allergies like now, seems everything is causing allergies.

I think the types of foods we eat might be killing off the more helpful bacteria leaving the bad guys to "poison" us.
This would mean that things like fibromyalgia, type 2 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, etc might just be the symptoms.

Pesticides, herbicides and the rest, they can't be positive there will be no ongoing effects, and gut flora and fauna......hmmm.

I think @SBee is right.

I think what we eat does have a bearing on health. We maybe need to just be in time with our bodies and If we feel I'll or just a bit meh from eating something then cut it down or out.

 

[Auriel]

Hi dryice, welcome to the forum , it's really interesting about gut bacteria/biome ,(our diet wasn't very healthy growing up, chips, cooked (not healthy) meat, fizzy drinks, bread and butter (lot's of butter) not very healthy things, I'm vegetarian now but fizzy drinks, wheat/gluten products even sweets! sometimes make my fibro worse (I also have autoimmune thyroid, it was only diagnosed around year + half ago, but I feel I've had it a lot longer undiagnosed) ️️

 

[Auriel]

Hi also I forgot to add they don't allow outside links to the forum (as much as I'd like to click on it to read it) you can type it in though? (and add the names connected for it be easier for us to find) ps, you can edit post's using the 3 dot's next to report

 

[MissNeverWell]

@Dryice2199 Hi, welcome to the forum. Definitely a full plate of food for thought, lol, and we share the same critical thinking processes regarding disease and food/nutrition.

I grew up on homemade food, including bread, as well as homemade desserts (cakes, pies, cookies, custard). However, mom would use fattening ingredients like butter or lard, sugar, cream/whole milk, along with artificial flavoured tin food like broth or cream of celery/mushroom soup to add flavour/thickness to stews. Our staple meats were beef, chicken, lamb, pork (she had sausages but I cut them out as an adult), and we had sliced meats/tuna fish which I also stopped eating as an adult.

I can see how diet kept on the weight I gained when I was nine years old after ear surgery, which caused significant problems with body image and self esteem because I was quite petite/slim before that. Then throughout the years I would gain and lose, feel better about myself or loathe myself. Now, for reasons unknown to me, I am down to below 75 pounds and look skeletal (especially the upper part of me).

But back to the orginal question, when I moved to Toronto (and away from home) and had trouble with housing and employment, sometimes living with my siblings, my diet was atrocious - fast food, tinned food, Tim Hortons and other brand muffins. I developed a sweet tooth and craving for simple carbohydrates, especial bread and baked goods, pasta, that kind of thing. Then I tried to take the bull by the horns and start to eat more nutritionally and cook my own foods. I now eat fresh vegetables, (potatoes, carrots, brussels sprouts, brocolli, frozen peas, green beans), meat, fish, chicken and make my own homemade bread. I've also incorporated peanut butter from the bulk food store (which I could not tolerate with typical brand names such as Kraft before now); and lentals/peas, also at the bulk food store, for soup. Like peanut butter, my gastrointestinal system had a very hard time with lentals/dried peas, although mom used to make pea soup, which I liked (although she would put ham in it, which I avoid like the plague - to me it's unadulterated cancer food.

Now I think I might be sugar sensitive, so I'm trying to follow through on this book called Potatoes, Not Prozac - the author makes a lot of sense to me (the interrelationship between blood sugar level, seratonin and endorphine), and prescribes not a deprivation diet as she calls it, but a supplementary diet, where you add more protein and other nutrients.

My problem is socialization and diet - all social activities I can find center around food - especially sweet, high caloric, processed simple carbohydrates and caffeine (which I'm finding is increasing through more cups of tea that I started just on a social basis but now want it when I'm alone. I am pressured into eating this garbage, but also, when I see it, I have a visceral response to these sweets and want to eat them, and can't stop when I'm full. People think I'm underweight because I don't eat, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. My problem seems to be that my shut-off valve doesn't work very effectively, so even though I know I'm full and should stop eating, I continue to do so. I'm not sure if it's related to chemicals in foods, allergies, addiction or emotional eating; probably a combination of all factors.

 

[BlueBells]

Hi @MissNeverWell

My problem seems to be that my shut-off valve doesn't work very effectively, so even though I know I'm full and should stop eating, I continue to do so. I'm not sure if it's related to chemicals in foods, allergies, addiction or emotional eating; probably a combination of all factors.

Years ago, a brand of cat dry food was bought by another company, and our cats began throwing up, a lot! The vet said that sometimes companies will put in additives that make an animal crave, therefore overeat, and when the belly is overfull, they throw up.

We changed from what had been their favourite and problem resolved.

It does make one wonder, doesn't it?

 

[MissNeverWell]

Hi @MissNeverWell



Years ago, a brand of cat dry food was bought by another company, and our cats began throwing up, a lot! The vet said that sometimes companies will put in additives that make an animal crave, therefore overeat, and when the belly is overfull, they throw up.

We changed from what had been their favourite and problem resolved.

It does make one wonder, doesn't it?

@BlueBells It certainly does, they do that with sweet foods as well.

 

[SBee]

That sounds immoral @BlueBells . My own cats are pretty fussy at the best of times, but I kind of just feel lucky when they actually eat what I put down.
I do remember there was a children's orange drink a few years back that caused some controversy, as kids seemed to get a bit addicted.
Sunny D???not sure. I try to avoid any Food that looks too obviously over coloured.

You would hope various food standards are in place, but sometimes I think then onus needs to also be on us as to what we consume. But it's so hard to check every label and then try to find out what each additive or ingredient actually means in real language.

 

[BlueBells]

@SBee

You would hope various food standards are in place,

Indeed. For decades I've not trusted the heart foundation tick, nor many other "approved by" comments. Butter is a classic example. Ads of butter is bad, then butter is good, then bad, etc, and all this approved by, you guessed it, the heart foundation!

I loved a butter ad years ago. Boy asks mum, "how do you make butter?" Mum says "well, you skim the cream off the milk, then churn it until you have butter". "Oh" says the boy. "How do you make margarine?" "Mum replies "oh, ask you father, he's the chemist."

All the RSPCA approved animal rearers/egg producers, we all know it's just follow the money with all of this stuff.

The very ones we should be able to trust, a few dollars waved in the right direction is all that's needed, sadly.

 

[MissNeverWell]

But it's so hard to check every label and then try to find out what each additive or ingredient actually means in real language.

I think that's how the manufacturers get away with it. Then, on the other hand, if it's like a foreign language, then that is a clue as to the how foreign is the chemical substance we are putting into our bodies. The issue of clear language comes up in legal terminology as well. The consumer is often blamed for agreeing to Terms and Conditions of various types of agreements that are written in legalese and many pages long. That, in itself, is a disability accessibility issue for persons who are verbally or cognitively impaired. However, even for the non-disabled person, the complex terminology is an obstacle to understanding the rights and obligations of both consumer and provider. In my opinion, we need to push for clear language.

 

[SBee]

@MissNeverWell I do remember a campaign for Plain Speaking English which is still in existence. They campaign to eliminate jargon so more of us can see a real meaning in techy/ legal stuff. They use a Crystal mark to show this on docs.

Incidentally, although they say ' English ' apparently they have altered some wordings ( thousands of them ) world wide,so I gather they can break down the jargon barriers in any language. Need more of this!

 

[MissNeverWell]

@SBee



Indeed. For decades I've not trusted the heart foundation tick, nor many other "approved by" comments. Butter is a classic example. Ads of butter is bad, then butter is good, then bad, etc, and all this approved by, you guessed it, the heart foundation!

I loved a butter ad years ago. Boy asks mum, "how do you make butter?" Mum says "well, you skim the cream off the milk, then churn it until you have butter". "Oh" says the boy. "How do you make margarine?" "Mum replies "oh, ask you father, he's the chemist."

All the RSPCA approved animal rearers/egg producers, we all know it's just follow the money with all of this stuff.

The very ones we should be able to trust, a few dollars waved in the right direction is all that's needed, sadly.

That's like the Heart and Stroke Foundation here in Canada. Becel margarine (especially salt-free) was touted by them as a heart healthy choice; however, when I looked at the ingredients, it's anything but heart healthy.

 

[MissNeverWell]

@MissNeverWell I do remember a campaign for Plain Speaking English which is still in existence. They campaign to eliminate jargon so more of us can see a real meaning in techy/ legal stuff. They use a Crystal mark to show this on docs.

Incidentally, although they say ' English ' apparently they have altered some wordings ( thousands of them ) world wide,so I gather they can break down the jargon barriers in any language. Need more of this!

I'm heartened to hear this! I remember being introduced to the concept many years ago in an ODSP (Ontario Disability Support Plan) activist group. The member was involved in an organization that works on this. Yet I've rarely seen any document that breaks the information down in straightforward language.