Legs

[JayCS]

my muscles are weakened; whether from a fibromyalgia trigger

Do you mean fibromyalgia flare? I'd've thought muscles would weaken longer term from lack of use due to lack of energy, not short term from a trigger or flare?

I've never had weak muscles at all, just problems unleashing their strength. When my energy is back, they're strong as ever. Or is that what you mean by weak if it's more from the flu or a flare?

I'm not sure and would (as ever) be interested in others' opinion too.

I doubt that a PT could distinguish short-term from long-term weakness. But what's more important there is that her exercises helped and didn't harm, that's great!

But having had the flu definitely weakens the muscles, I'd reckon a month for that.
Time will tell - and whatever - your exercises will help, best short, but very regularly!

 

[Nan]

Thanks but doubt hubby would enjoy my exercises in bed. I disturb him enough. What exercises do you do? Thanks Nan

 

[Nan]

Hi sorry it’s a late reply but thanks . How do you use your tens for the creepy crawly feelings. Iv got two but not 100% sure how to get the best from them? Nan

 

[JayCS]

some really good leg stretches in my bed until the pain abates somewhat and I am able to get comfortable enough to fall asleep.

doubt hubby would enjoy my exercises in bed. I disturb him enough. What exercises do you do?

If I may chip in: I practice in the daytime or when alone to find slightly twist-stretched positions which I can keep up for longer, and I think partly even whilst sleeping. So it's stretches without moving, so they have to be slight and maybe need to be adjusted minutely, which might be possible without disturbing the OH.
Examples: I used to lie on my back on a cushion under my hunchback the first few years, but that hurt my tailbone so bad that it ruined the night if I did it longer than 4', no workaround helped that. Instead now I've learnt to slightly arch my back while lying in recovery position by nudging my legs backwards. If I do this too much or bend my knees backward too much it'll suddenly backlash on me, but I've found the compromise position. For other local pains I also find a slightly stretched position for it that I can hold for longer, at least till I'm asleep, maybe longer.

I guess (or think I remember) it's no option to get a fairer deal than to put his need for sleep above yours....
I'm bad at this, but my wife chides me for not doing what's best for me, even tho she may need her sleep for work, whilst I 'only' need mine for my pain, cos I only need to work when I'm able.

 

[MissNeverWell]

Update: I went to a walk-in clinic but the wait would be at least two hours and there were people coughing, so I chose an alternate route. Registered online for a telehealth appointment and waiting for the booking. In the meantime, one of the parishioners at my church is a nurse, and she took a peak, and said it might be vascular related. Certainly better than cancer, but not much more reassuring if blood clots/circulation are an issue. I managed to take a poor quality photo for my upcoming appointment, and the more I look at it, the more I think it's vein related. I have to stop crossing my legs, bad habit of mine, lol.

 

[JayCS]

it might be vascular related. Certainly better than cancer, but not much more reassuring if blood clots/circulation are an issue

Ah, true, good idea!
I'd still think a lot more reassuring than cancer -
a lot easier to do something about it, esp. if early enough.
But my problems walking I also long thought may be vascular, which my cardio couldn't disprove - but then it'd be there all the time, and wouldn't be able to suddenly disappear.

poor quality photo for my upcoming appointment

I'd get someone else with a better camera to take several high quality pictures and send them to you, praps even film you pressing on bits n' pieces, like a doc might...
Praps someone from church can help too.

I have to stop crossing my legs, bad habit of mine, lol.

Would putting something around the knee of the bottom leg remind or stop you?

I've become pretty much expert at changing any habits at will... (only I never get to eat my 3rd meal early enough, but that's got to do with eating with my wife...)

 

[MissNeverWell]

Do you mean fibromyalgia flare? I'd've thought muscles would weaken longer term from lack of use due to lack of energy, not short term from a trigger or flare?

I've never had weak muscles at all, just problems unleashing their strength. When my energy is back, they're strong as ever. Or is that what you mean by weak if it's more from the flu or a flare?

I'm not sure and would (as ever) be interested in others' opinion too.

I doubt that a PT could distinguish short-term from long-term weakness. But what's more important there is that her exercises helped and didn't harm, that's great!

But having had the flu definitely weakens the muscles, I'd reckon a month for that.
Time will tell - and whatever - your exercises will help, best short, but very regularly!

I guess I'm talking two things here. There are two issues with me. I've had some generalized musculoskeletal weakness for a long time; not sure if it's part of my physical make-up from birth/childhood or if something happened along the way to weaken these systems. Weakness in some localized areas stem from injuries or repetitive strain/overuse.

Then when I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia by a specialist (I can't remember in what field; either immunology or rheumatology) in the 80's or 90's, I joined support groups and went to workshops/medical presentations on the condition. That's where I learned about knotting of the muscles, their lack of efficient use of oxygen and de-conditioning from lack of use. I could never run, not even as a child (it's as if I have no shock absorbers in my knees and I would also get breathless easily), but I've done a lot of walking and Yoga throughout my life, particularly going on the trails taking photos, so it's unlikely that any muscle weakness would be from lack of use on my part. It's interesting you describe muscle inefficiency as "problems unleashing their strength"; a very apt way of putting it. Can you elaborate on that?

The reason I wondered about the fibromyalgia flareup as a result of the flu and consequent effect on the muscles is because of the involvement of that system in both conditons. One one level, I had fibromyalgia, which affects the nerve endings of the muscles rather than the muscles themselves, which was a relief to learn. On another level, I read about a study of muscle/neurological aftereffects of flu (not specifically COVID, this was before its onset) and how a flu virus can produce long-term damage in some patients, who subsequently experienced reduced ability to walk, muscle weakness, balance and other neurological problems. So you have a preexisting condition and a stimulus that, in part, targets the muscles. When I had the flu, which attacked the digestive and, to a lesser extent, the respiratory systems, it rendered me unable to walk or remain standing for even seconds/minutes at a time, and lingered for a couple of weeks. It was quite alarming for me, especially being alone, and I thought I had incurred some lasting damage and wouldn't be able to walk again. That's when I explored physiotherapy independently (I don't have a family doctor). However, the life finally came back into my legs, albeit not at pre-flu levels. What was interesting was another online article that described how the body's immune system produces a protein in the muscles to help fight the flu, which adds another variable to the mix - the immune system. The physiotherapist, as you point out, could not determine what was pre and post muscle weakness, that was my assessment based on my own self awareness and medical history. However, she could accurately determine through examination, the muscle groups that were weaker than others, and I'm grateful for the exercises she gave me for that.

 

[JayCS]

I guess I'm talking two things here.

Wow, thanks for going into such detail!

in the 80's or 90's, I joined support groups and went to workshops/medical presentations on the condition. That's where I learned about knotting of the muscles, their lack of efficient use of oxygen and de-conditioning from lack of use.

I wouldn't think that much of what they thought in the 80s/90s is still relevant, from what people and the criteria development says, but I agree what you list are definitely things that still apply today.

It's interesting you describe muscle inefficiency as "problems unleashing their strength"; a very apt way of putting it. Can you elaborate on that?

Glad to... Attempting a deeper think about the connections....

The unleashing works on-off and is an energy & stiffness issue.
When "on", my muscle strength can be there for a varying time (from always 30 seconds to occasionally 2h), fully to fairly fully. Then "the brakes" slowly crunch in. - Similar my fine motor skill muscles, but semi-independently of the big muscles. Even more so social interaction via body and emotional muscle energy and the energy biochemistry behind it.
All surprising to others and myself to see that switch off, takes getting used to.

Of the 15 fatigue types I've identified, I call this "quick exhaustibility". Doesn't seem to have too much to do with stamina, cos since the 3rd jab I can use "slower energy" much longer whilst I'd lost the "fast energy" completely for a long time.

The brakes can be temporarily partly suspended / delayed by eustress and Chinese acupuncture increasing cortisol (and since the jabs histamine). But these are only only a mask, cos the backlashes are severe if I use that energy / lack of stiffness. Better was whole body cryotherapy, but also varying and not controllable, only manageable. Helpful is always cold showering.

But the fact that I can "carry on where I left off" with what I can then do shows that my muscles haven't become weaker in the meantime, no sore muscles. Perhaps partly because I'd got very fit in the 10 years before fibro and still move as much as I can under or stretching the limit.
Backlashes are 'only' a severe Ache, feeling ill, partly a little nauseous.

All that's improved with (V)LDN, it's doubled (10 to >20%) and stabilized my energy and decreased backlashes. But it's still an energy "window" - one minute i can charge up the staircase or cycle pretty fast, next minute i'm toppling over, have difficult standing and walking, cos I've lost control. Working with moderate energy in the garden I can do for hours, going to my shops or walking only 30' incl. there and back.

So what do I make of these "problems unleashing my strength"?
Several things that help point to my neurotransmitters askew - GABA to serotonin, reducing histamine to histamine, reducing stress to cortisol and vagus.
Cold showering helping to these and pro-inflammatory cytokines. And my local pains seem to mainly be tendinitis esp. varying around all joints,
Could tendinitis be connected with stiffness and energy? All inflammatory?
Maybe a underlying chronic inflammation (nerves, tendons and askew neurotransmitters) that jumps above a certain limit (switches on and off) by a trigger, similar to what you say next:

The reason I wondered about the fibromyalgia flareup as a result of the flu and consequent effect on the muscles is because of the involvement of that system in both conditons. ... nerve endings of the muscles ... muscle/neurological aftereffects of flu .... muscle weakness, balance and other neurological problems. So you have a preexisting condition and a stimulus that, in part, targets the muscles.

Ah, I get it. Reminds me of my swine flu 2011 praps triggering the onset of fibro, cos it was in that decade that I got "Ache flares". Nerve endings me too, but no directly neurological problems, and muscle weakness only in the energy sense.
Combination definitely well possible, so best to try to work on both bits.

protein in the muscles to help fight the flu, which... variable - the immune system.

Definitely, jab-triggered MCAS has "trebled" my fibro energy problems (from 30% down to 10%) - cytokines and many more things fit to both...

However, she could accurately determine through examination, the muscle groups that were weaker than others, and I'm grateful for the exercises she gave me for that.

Yep, important is that it works. Strengthening exercises for my wrists / underarms might be my weakest muscle area, I have various gadgets for that.

 

[JamieMarc]

really good leg stretches in my bed until the pain abates somewhat

Oh, not just stretches but tensing and releasing all of my leg muscles five or six times seems to help as well. In fact, that helps me a little more than the stretches in bed.

 

[JayCS]

Oh, not just stretches but tensing and releasing all of my leg muscles five or six times seems to help as well. In fact, that helps me a little more than the stretches in bed.

True. Me the stretches, tensing as a workaround when I don't want to move/disturb.

 

[Nan]

Thanks JayCS for that. It’s just turned 3am and I’m out of bed ruining my beauty sleep for the third night running . My ankles hurt so much and when I get up my spine is painful too. Thanks again. Iv got a hot water bottle on my back, Avena Wintergreens on my ankles and knees!!!! Life is sweet…….. not. . Hope everyone is having a good day. Nan

 

[JayCS]

It’s just turned 3am and I’m out of bed ruining my beauty sleep for the third night running

All my alarm bells go on when I hear 3am, cos that's around the time histamine peaks... If you're pretty OK with sleep until then but then are suddenly pretty wide awake, that'd mean trying to decrease histamine in things like foods...

But if we've been tossing and turning till then..... we shouldn't've been, according to researchers: If we can't sleep inside a certain amount of minutes we need to get up until we are really tired, and still get up not much later than 6 (altho it's getting 8 for me now it's dark, but my sleep is now "too good" for some reason). When I realized I was still wide awake after 10 minutes, I got up.
The alternative would be NSDR/yoga nidra to incite/substitute sleep. I've learnt what's best when, when I couldn't sleep properly, I did yoga nidra first, and only when I'm realized I was much too restless and awake did I get up, treated my pains, and did a variety of things to get back.
This has all got much better now I've greatly reduced screen time in the evenings and almost stopped it at night.

 

[Edit]

Not restless legs is that?

Yes it sounds like restless leg. I am suffering from that more than 15 years. I get medication at night, but sometimes is so bad, I get up walk a little bit. some night I can fall asleep at all. 2 days ago I was up until 5.45 am. I had a very stressful week my husband had a gall bladder operation. If I am stressed restless leg is much more coming at night. I don't know what you can do except medication (but it not always help. Here we have lot of people who can give some useful advice. Take care!

 

[Nan]

Does CBD cream really work on painful legs? Nan

 

[sunkacola]

Does CBD cream really work on painful legs? Nan

For some people, it helps. I have never found that it helped me; in fact, no form of CBD alone has proven to be helpful for me, although if it is CBD:THC, in a 1:1 ratio, it is v ery helpful. Of course, that doesn't come in a cream form.

Another thing some people report as helpful is Arnica lotion. And some people find that using a TENS machine helps with leg tingling and restlessness. I use the TENS on my legs more than any other part of my body, and find that it helps most of the time.