Specific diet?

Stevie85

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Hi, I'm a newbie here. Only recently diagnosed but trying as much as possible to find alternative ways to manage the fibro. I've been prescribed tramadol to get through the worst days and have looked into Cbd capsules. Doctor will prescribe amitriptylin. I stick to a veggie/vegan diet but have been advised to switch to a carnivore diet. Any advise would be great.
 

JayCS

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Hi Stevie, good on ya for looking for alternative ways. Maybe you've been reading all our ideas which are basically almost all "alternative".

Diet-wise for fibro alone a "healthy" diet without processed foods may be enough, so of course no sugar or other simple carbs, whilst saturated fats are controversial. Often recommended, in studies too, is a for instance a Mediterranean diet. However, esp. if you have IBS or other food intolerances, trying to stop gluten as well as dairy and/or meat, and low fructans are things that are often tried. And there is certainly no general recommendation for people with fibro to eat meat, whether with dairy or without, rather the contrary.
But some people may still say eating a bit of everything incl. meat / fish might seem to be 'more healthy'. A bit old-fashioned though, even many mainstream docs nowadays recommend to reduce meat as much as possible, as there is lots of evidence that in many cases, esp. if you don't watch out what sort of meat, it can be pretty bad for your general health. Just saw a local doc in a talk about dementia yesterday saying exactly that - and there was absolutely nothing alternative about him, for instance his opinion about ginkgo was that it's probably useless for dementia.
My personal experience at the moment is weird - phosphate deficiency which could best be improved with dairy & meat... but I'm making a list of plants I can increase (cos I only want to buy dairy if it's close to the expiry date, to "save" it).

Hope that's a bit of guidance for you?
 

cookiebaker

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Hi, I'm a newbie here. Only recently diagnosed but trying as much as possible to find alternative ways to manage the fibro. I've been prescribed tramadol to get through the worst days and have looked into Cbd capsules. Doctor will prescribe amitriptylin. I stick to a veggie/vegan diet but have been advised to switch to a carnivore diet. Any advise would be great.
Just use caution when mixing medications.. be sure your doctor is aware of the CBD if you do decide you want to try it.
Use the tramadol as little as possible.. it is an opioid and is addictive if one is not careful..

I dont think you necessarily need to switch to a "carnivore" diet, but adding things like fish/seafood (salmon especially) can be beneficial for you, as can some dairy products (calcium, magnesium, vitamins A & B12, etc) and eggs (protein source). Just all things in moderation - overdoing anything in a diet of any kind can cause just as many problems as complete avoidance.

If you do decide to add "carnivore" type foods, i would do so slowly - adding just one thing and seeing how you are affected by it over the course of a week or two..
 

sunkacola

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Hi Stevie85,

There is no specific diet that will help people with fibromyalgia because we all manifest the syndrome differently and we all have different bodies, with different needs. Some say that a plant based diet has helped them and that is great, but others say differently - my body doesn't do well at all unless I eat meat. You have to find out which category you are in and experimenting is the only way to do that.

I detail how to do that in a post of advice I wrote - see below.
Basically, you just cut out one thing at a time to see if it helps, and you give that at least three weeks to a month in order to find out if it makes a difference. Or, if you want you can cut out a whole lot of things at once (which I think is harder) and if you feel better, add one thing back at a time to see if any one thing or category seems to make it worse for you. This whole process takes time and diligence but it's worth it if you find out what helps.

If anyone tells you there is a special "fibromyalgia diet", they are not well informed and/or are trying to get your money. The doctor who told you to eat meat is not well informed, and I suggest you find a different one who knows more about it. There's no one thing that works for everyone. but leading the most healthy lifestyle and taking good care of your body will definitely help almost everyone.

As for medications, taking tramadol occasionally is fine, just be aware as cookiebaker said that it is addictive and should be used sparingly and with caution.
CBD, since it is not actually a medication, can be combined with just about anything without any risk of adverse drug interactions or reactions. It helps some people, others not. CBD alone did not help me but combined with THC it helps a lot with certain kinds of pain. Tinctures or edibles are best for this - you don't want to be smoking something and cause those problems.

I hope this post will be helpful to you.
 

Sibergirl

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Hi Stevie85,

I’m not a doctor but I am someone suffering with Hypothyroidism (non-Hashimoto’s) induced Fibromyalgia. My docs who are more integrative docs don’t endorse a vegetarian or vegan diet. They believe firmly that the best way to health is through real bioavailable food with the least meds or supplements necessary, and veganism has to be supplemented because it doesn’t provide everything a human needs, B12 is one critical example. B12 deficiency will make fibro symptoms worse. I know that from my own life. You don’t have to do carnivore or even keto but I beg you not to give up animal based food or to add it in if you aren’t eating it.

Instead try and stay lower on the carbs but eat real food. Humans are omnivores and we need animal protein and fat. Vegetable protein and fat are nowhere near as bioavailable to the human body as animal foods are. It’s a fact that’s finally beginning to be realized by scientists, nutritionists, and the general populace. However, please, don’t take my word for it, do your own research. By all means, if you are allergic or sensitive to some animal foods don’t eat them. I gotta say, when one really does a deep dive on the whole “plant based” push by Big Food companies one will find that this plant based push means big bucks for them, and down the line, for Big Pharma, after one has made oneself sick eating a vegetarian or vegan diet.

So many plant foods are high in compounds that aren’t good for us: oxylates, phytates, salicylates, lectins, fodmaps (for those sensitive), fructose sensitivity issues, then there is gluten which is a huge problem (another plant food) plus other chemical constituents in plants that may give us some nutrients (for example when prepared with animal fat like butter) but when eaten raw they actually block the absorption of other things we need in our body, like goitrogenic veggies preventing iodine uptake in our thyroid gland. So all those kale shakes are killing peoples’ thyroids. All of this stuff can and often does cause more inflammation than eating humanely raised, grass fed or pasture raised animal foods. Don’t even get me started on seed oils. Nothing makes me feel better than a grass fed steak, or bacon and real farm eggs, or a big glass of cold raw milk. Humans are not herbivores. We don’t have 4 stomachs that can handle breaking down non- stop vegetation all day. Primarily plant based folks may feel good initially but eventually the gut problems descend upon them, Sibo, Sifo, GERD, infertility, impotence, extreme weight loss, skin problems, hair loss, psychiatric problems, chronic fatigue and muscle pain due to lack of proper protein, insulin resistance or diabetes type 2 from the sheer carb loading of plant based eating, along with collagen loss, which can be physically devastating. I’ve seen it in a long term vegan family member. I am the patient of a functional medicine doctor and a integrative psychiatrist and neither recommend any form of vegetarianism especially not for fibro, gut health, autoimmune disorders, thyroid disease, or mental health issues.

I just wanted to give you another perspective on things that have helped me get better and, in my case, moving away from plants, and even a lot of nuts, and especially avoiding gluten, has been key. I eat veggies and fruits, and even a few gluten free grains, it’s just that stuff is the minority of my diet, the majority is animal foods: meat, fowl, fish, raw milk, cheese, eggs, butter, lard, tallow. I don’t go crazy on plant foods, actually more animal based eating has been a game changer for me. Hope some of this helps.
-Rachel
 

JayCS

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Hi Rachel,

hehe, your passionate pro-meat fling made me want to just stop eating plants and only eat meat now... Until I remembered all the other sides of all this and looked at how you've put it...

I agree a balanced diet without processed foods is theoretically best for everyone's bodies, if fairly healthy. Bloods like B12 need checking and supplementing whatever our diet. Cos of course all nutrients or "anti-nutrients" have their down- and upsides. You've focused on the downsides of plants, not their upsides, or the downsides of eating animals (including their use/abuse - maybe not Stevie's issue, but mine).
In my life experience, research, industry & pharma long sided on meat, and the more we learn the more balanced this is getting.
And in my diet experience it was meat and dairy I had to reduce first and I('d) definitely need to keep everything you list down, altho cow yogurt is now OK again.
(B12 was never a problem for me: fibro had brought it down, but upping doesn't make a difference.)

Just tonight I was up for 2h (4h) cos the 50g of cheese I'm now eating for phosphorus energy was too much for my acidity (severe reflux and heartburn) and so esophagus blocks. Instead I've found out that soaking almonds and pumpkin seeds will reduce their phytates/phytic acid and increase their phosphorus. But I'll continue with mozzarella and less cheese in the hope that it's worth it.

But we're all different, and finding our balance helps, so it's good to see you've found yours, and I hope everyone finds their's - and that it's not as complicated as it is for me.
 

cookiebaker

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Humans are omnivores and we need animal protein and fat.
But we're all different, and finding our balance helps

I can agree with both of these statements.. humans are omnivores and need both animal and vegetable nutrients - what we dont need is all the chemicals that end up in our foods, in general.

I am a firm believer in "All things in moderation" here.. minus the chemical additives... fresh, whole foods are far better than heavily processed and loaded with preservatives and artificial additives.

As far as raw milk goes, it is illegal in many states to sell raw milk to the general public.. it usually needs to be pasteurized at the very least, to kill off harmful bacteria (which also kills off good bacteria), so short of keeping your own cow or milk goats, raw milk is not going to be an easy option for most people, and to be honest, i dont see that changing any time soon.
Not convinced that lard & tallow are necessarily "good" for you either.. so perhaps limited use would be best here?

I honestly believe that cutting out all the prepackaged, convenience stuff - things like hamburger helper, boxed macaroni & cheese, frozen dinners, etc., is a far better approach. all that stuff is loaded with excess chemicals that we do not need and are not good for us.
Keeping things simple, and as fresh as possible will give much more benefit. If you cant easily pronounce it, dont eat it! ;)

I do get that some of us simply can not eat a lot of things, but i do see that the things that are being eaten are as chemical free as possible - and that is where the big difference lies.. losing the chemicals. I know for me, personally, it has made a big difference..
 

TheSqidd

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I've had really good results from eating a strict Keto or Carnivore diet. I wouldn't recommend Carnivore long term though. I think of it more as a "cleansing" diet strategy or an elimination diet. I have also had good results with intermittent fasting (eating your daily food in a 8hr or less window). And also longer temp fasting. Fasting for 36-40hrs one time a week works really well for me. Fasting can be tough for some people. But, it's a lot easier if you start from a position of alreday eating a keto diet. You get to skip the negative effects of carb withdrawal if you fast while in Keto. I actually really enjoy fasting. I find it really easy and it's generally the best I feel all week. Of course you won't be doing any strenuous exercise while fasting though.
 

fitzy

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Hi Stevie85,

I’m not a doctor but I am someone suffering with Hypothyroidism (non-Hashimoto’s) induced Fibromyalgia. My docs who are more integrative docs don’t endorse a vegetarian or vegan diet. They believe firmly that the best way to health is through real bioavailable food with the least meds or supplements necessary, and veganism has to be supplemented because it doesn’t provide everything a human needs, B12 is one critical example. B12 deficiency will make fibro symptoms worse. I know that from my own life. You don’t have to do carnivore or even keto but I beg you not to give up animal based food or to add it in if you aren’t eating it.

Instead try and stay lower on the carbs but eat real food. Humans are omnivores and we need animal protein and fat. Vegetable protein and fat are nowhere near as bioavailable to the human body as animal foods are. It’s a fact that’s finally beginning to be realized by scientists, nutritionists, and the general populace. However, please, don’t take my word for it, do your own research. By all means, if you are allergic or sensitive to some animal foods don’t eat them. I gotta say, when one really does a deep dive on the whole “plant based” push by Big Food companies one will find that this plant based push means big bucks for them, and down the line, for Big Pharma, after one has made oneself sick eating a vegetarian or vegan diet.

So many plant foods are high in compounds that aren’t good for us: oxylates, phytates, salicylates, lectins, fodmaps (for those sensitive), fructose sensitivity issues, then there is gluten which is a huge problem (another plant food) plus other chemical constituents in plants that may give us some nutrients (for example when prepared with animal fat like butter) but when eaten raw they actually block the absorption of other things we need in our body, like goitrogenic veggies preventing iodine uptake in our thyroid gland. So all those kale shakes are killing peoples’ thyroids. All of this stuff can and often does cause more inflammation than eating humanely raised, grass fed or pasture raised animal foods. Don’t even get me started on seed oils. Nothing makes me feel better than a grass fed steak, or bacon and real farm eggs, or a big glass of cold raw milk. Humans are not herbivores. We don’t have 4 stomachs that can handle breaking down non- stop vegetation all day. Primarily plant based folks may feel good initially but eventually the gut problems descend upon them, Sibo, Sifo, GERD, infertility, impotence, extreme weight loss, skin problems, hair loss, psychiatric problems, chronic fatigue and muscle pain due to lack of proper protein, insulin resistance or diabetes type 2 from the sheer carb loading of plant based eating, along with collagen loss, which can be physically devastating. I’ve seen it in a long term vegan family member. I am the patient of a functional medicine doctor and a integrative psychiatrist and neither recommend any form of vegetarianism especially not for fibro, gut health, autoimmune disorders, thyroid disease, or mental health issues.

I just wanted to give you another perspective on things that have helped me get better and, in my case, moving away from plants, and even a lot of nuts, and especially avoiding gluten, has been key. I eat veggies and fruits, and even a few gluten free grains, it’s just that stuff is the minority of my diet, the majority is animal foods: meat, fowl, fish, raw milk, cheese, eggs, butter, lard, tallow. I don’t go crazy on plant foods, actually more animal based eating has been a game changer for me. Hope some of this helps.
-Rachel
Hey Rachel,

I started a low oxalate to start the new year. Pharmaceutical drugs haven't done squat. I have not found anyone who has tried low oxalate diet with fibromyalgia. Are you on a low oxalate diet? If so, for how long? Have you noticed a marked improvement? If you have had a marked improvement, do you owe this to your low oxalate diet or the fact that the diet restricts a lot of unhealthy processed foods? Of course, it is probably tough to disentangle the two. I'm trying to get feedback from people that have actually tried this for at least 3 months without giving up on it or doing shortcuts/half-assing it. If you know of any other people that have had success, please let me know that as well. If you can loop them into this convo that would be helpful so we can pick their brains about what worked and didn't work. Especially since oxalate levels in foods is not thoroughly studied and different sources say different things. I think this is the most up to date list of low oxalate foods.

If you have more up-to-date / accurate info on low oxalate foods, please post here.

Andrew
 

cookiebaker

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I started a low oxalate to start the new year. Pharmaceutical drugs haven't done squat.
Umm.. low oxalate diets are about preventing kidney stones - not about pain management. Not sure why you think this would help you - unless you suffer with kidney stones as well?

also, a quick search turned up this statement...
When oxalates are lowered in the diet, stored oxalates tend to be released from the tissues. This is known as 'dumping'. This process can lead to an increase in symptoms, some of which may be difficult to manage and can cause extreme pain.

Not sure following a low oxalate diet would be a good thing
 

fitzy

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I know that's what it's main purpose. I took can use the internet. However, if you read the post I'm responding to, she brings up oxalates which has been discussed as source of pain as well. You can Google "low oxalate fibromyalgia" or something similar and see. I know it's not scientifically supported. But do you know what else isn't scientifically supported? The cause of fibromyalgia. So we are all basically self testing anecdotes trying to figure out how to reduce the pain we've been unfortunately afflicted with. I appreciate your overall condescending response as .much as you will appreciate my long winded comment to you. Ummmmmm
 

JayCS

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Hi Andrew, in the other thread I mentioned that lowering oxalates is occasionally mentioned for fibromyalgia. However there are many others that are supported by more anecdotal experiences - have you tried them all, or why is that you are starting that far from the beaten track?

Summarizing the experiences of others I recommend trying stopping dairy, meat & gluten singly or together, lowering fructans (which has the highest study evidence for fibro), and a Mediterranean diet.
Some fibro people believe low carb helps them, and what is pretty much proven from that recommendation is that avoiding simple carbs like sugar as well as all processed foods.
Now looking at your list above, a lot of it would need to be ignored for these reasons.

A bit less than histamine, it's been hard to give correctly measured oxalate amounts, so I understand why you're looking for an up-to-date list. In the case of histamine we also look at histamine liberators, oxalates and salicylates and essentially it's about watching the effects of each single food, using one of the many types of elimination diet and a food diary.
 

Badger

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It can feel like a minefield finding the right path for oneself, symptoms make it difficult to study. There's great advice above and it's worth experimenting, it may take time but that's fibro for you. I'm going to stick with intermittent fasting and see what happens. Tried it on and off last year and felt better in terms of IBS and acid reflux. Quitting junk food and drinking less alcohol is proving difficult but the second day of fasting did feel easier.

Elsewhere eating the likes of eggs, chicken, berries, veg and soups. Trying a gut friendly granola cereal called Bio and me at the moment. A friend of mine and his girlfriend make lovely dinners. She made a gorgeous Christmas leftovers pie with creamy sauce.
 

cookiebaker

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I know that's what it's main purpose. I took can use the internet. However, if you read the post I'm responding to, she brings up oxalates which has been discussed as source of pain as well. You can Google "low oxalate fibromyalgia" or something similar and see. I know it's not scientifically supported. But do you know what else isn't scientifically supported? The cause of fibromyalgia. So we are all basically self testing anecdotes trying to figure out how to reduce the pain we've been unfortunately afflicted with. I appreciate your overall condescending response as .much as you will appreciate my long winded comment to you. Ummmmmm
I did not mean to sound condescending, and I apologize if that is how it came across.

And yes, we are kind of left to our own devices in the search for relief of this thing called fibromyalgia.

As someone that has suffered with kidney stones, I am aware of the low oxalate diet, but in my case, i dont make them often enough (small one every 8-12 yrs) to be overly concerned with such a restrictive diet to help prevent them.
I did see mention of this diet in relation to fibro before, but not much research done to back it up, so it just seems a bit extreme to me, and potentially could make things worse with the "dumping" aspect..

Cutting gluten has had a BIG impact on how i feel overall.. as has cutting out nightshade veggies, altho cutting the potatoes has been very hard...
Funny thing is, sweet potatoes (aka yams) are a no-no in the low oxalate diet, but they do not affect me like a white potato does - so i dont think it is an oxalate issue - for me. But as we all know, everyone is different.

I wish you luck with your choice, and hope it works for you.
 

fitzy

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Appreciate your feedback. This is my year of trying different diets. Low oxalate cuts out a lot of gluten and nightshades. After low oxalate diet, I'll try some of these things you mentioned.
 
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